Subject: Re: Shyness, relationships
Date: 1996/04/19
Newsgroups: soc.bi

Sion wrote:
>
> Jon wrote:
> >I don't think social ineptitude is something that one gains, you have > >it and decrease it with experience. >

> On an absolute scale, no, it is not something that is gained, but as > one grows older the standard of social eptitude one is expected to > maintain increases, and if one's experience doesn't keep pace, > apparent ineptitide increases. It's one thing to be clumsy and awkward > when first venturing forth into the world, but not to have improved > over the subsequent decade is a terrible deficiency.

I can empathise. I was highly socially inept for all of my teens and 20's. It sounds kind of cliched, but only when I discovered my sexuality, and 'learned to like myself' did I find myself at ease in company. I think its the 'liking oneself' bit that is really important. Before that I always assumed that people did not like me much, so I was always very self-concious.

> Oh, I'm just so completely inept at anything and everything that my > social awkwardness just doesn't stand out. >
> >As for worrying about whether I fancy people, for me it's one of my > >few pleasures in life. Whether *they* fancy *me* is what I try not > >to worry about.

During my inept decades, I had not the slightest doubt that no-one could possibly fancy me, that I didn't worry. It took a lot of convincing for me to believe that some people *did* fancy me.

>
> But fancying people with no hope of them reciprocating is just such a > waste of time and mental energy -- something I avoid if at all > possible and fight if not.
>

I have been delightfully surprised by the frequency of which fancying is reciprocated, particularly with my lack of looks!

Steve

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Subject: Re: Shyness, relationships
Date: 1996/04/22
Newsgroups: soc.bi

Sion wrote:
>
> Steve wrote:
> >I can empathise. I was highly socially inept for all of my teens and 20's. > >It sounds kind of cliched, but only when I discovered my sexuality, and > >'learned to like myself' did I find myself at ease in company. I think > >its the 'liking oneself' bit that is really important. Before that I > >always assumed that people did not like me much, so I was always very > >self-concious. >

> There's a good chance you're right, but there's no way I'm ever going > to 'learn to like myself' -- there just isn't anything likeable about > me (or, to stave off possible disagreement, when you know me as well > as I do, all the unlikeable things far outway any likeable aspects). I > *accept* what I am, something coming out has a big part to play in, > and that has to help being at ease in company, but actually that is a > detriment to social skills, because if one is at ease, one is much > more likely to be extrovert and thus be obviously inept.

In my opinion, the skill comes more or less naturally with being at ease with oneself. I think the 'introvert/extrovert' labels are misleading. I think its more that being at ease, one does not care as much about people's reactions. Don't be so sure about not liking oneself - I find that the best cure for this is time. In my 30's I have find myself becoming more comfortable with who I am, rather like a comfortable and battered old sweater. I found that after a time I ran out of energy for all the misery and worry and entered a kind of neutral 'this is just the way things are' state. Coming out and discovering MEN in my early 30's changed me from that state into one of liking myself. I know this sounds terribly condescending (and I really don't mean it to) but time will heal.

>
> >During my inept decades, I had not the slightest doubt that no-one > >could possibly fancy me, that I didn't worry. It took a lot of > >convincing for me to believe that some people *did* fancy me. >
> I've had to admit that there is a possibility that people might fancy > me, but I'm convinced such people fall into two categories. Firstly, > there's those who are so desperate that anyone of suitable orientation > and availability is a valid target, although getting out of University > seems to have reduced the number of these. Secondly, there are those > who just don't know me well enough (ie everybody, bar maybe a handful) > and thus might be unaware of what a terrible mistake fancying me would > be.

The mistake is not necessarily fancying; its in following up surely (if it is indeed a mistake).

Regards

Steve

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